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And welcome everyone to another episode of coloring outside the memos, this is Dr tiffany with Dr Lizzie and we are so excited to have you join us today, I mean today. Is a day where we get to talk about position alie but before we get into that on this particular episode we're just going to recap, we have been talking about so much stuff I mean we talked about so much stuff I mean Dr Lizzie where to even begin where to even begin. I mean all things qualitative. All things qualitative. What is qualitative research? What else have we talked about? We've talked about how in the world does qualitative research remain relevant in a quantitative world. We've talked about understanding gender. In sexuality. How to construct an interview guide. And the importance of menuing, just to name a few. This is just, I mean, so folks, if you have not listened to the first five episodes, and now by this point, you would have gotten to episode 10. But if you have not listened to the first five episodes, you need to turn into those first five episodes because we really deconstruct, if I can say, how we came to this field as emerging scholars. It makes it sound so useful. Emerging scholars, you know. And sounds very fancy. It does sound very fancy. You know, we fancy now we fancy now. And so anyway, but just a quick reminder that you can find all of these episodes on Spotify and on the Google podcast or, um, at www.cotmpod.com. So that's coloring outside the memos pod.com for the most up to date information on the podcast. Currently we are on Twitter. at cotm underscore pod, but you know, with the world being the way that it is, we'll come back to you with our social media information. We'll just let that be that as it is. And we'll leave up a tweet telling you where we moved if we decide to move. If we if we decide and when we decide to move. Yes, most definitely, most definitely. But on this episode on this 10th episode, I feel like we should have background music because we've gotten 10 episodes. Thank you. You're welcome. That's what I needed. On this lovely 10th episode, we are gonna be discussing the positionality statement and how to write it and the importance of taking up a stand when you're doing your write-up for your research. I mean, a lot of people, you're gonna hear positionality statement, reflexivity statement, maybe it's called a subjectivity statement. Dr. Lizzie and I were talking about this earlier. So many different words. So many, so many, why so many? But hey, it's all good, it's all good. And this is what we're here for, right? That's right, we're here for understanding words and why people use them and what they mean. Do they mean? The learning continues, the learning continues. Never stops. Never, never, never. So I mean, I don't know, Dr. Lizzie, where do we, where do you... Where do you think we should go from here? Great question. Well, I think one of the things I think about when I think about this is something that we've all been told that, I mean, Dr. Tiffany, you and I have talked about this so, so many times. All throughout your PhD, all throughout your master's degree, all throughout your bachelor's degree. Everyone says research should be free of bias. Cool, great, awesome. Beautiful idea, superb, right? Like it sounds so good. Yeah, we don't want bias in our research. How else do we know what the world is made up of and how it works and how it doesn't work? But hold up for a second. Can anything be free of bias? Hold on, check yourself. Check yourself, think about it. Think about how you grew up. versus your partner grew up, versus your best friend grew up, versus a colleague grew up that you do not see eye to eye with. We all have bias listeners. We all have it. It oozes out of us if we're not acknowledging it. And when we're not acknowledging it, we tend to get into a lot of trouble. So one of the things that I think about with these statements is this is a way for us to think about that bias and to say, There's no possible way for any type of research, I'm gonna say that, to be free of bias because we all have our lenses that we're looking through. We all have the ways, our constructivist ways of forming the world. And again, if you haven't listened to our early episodes, go listen back to them in case you need a refresher. Constructivist ideas are essentially, I could call, I might call something a chair because I've sat in it before, but it might be a tree stump, in fact. You might see it and you might go, this is a tree stump and I might look at it and go, it's a chair. We might think about that differentially. How do we know? How do we come to those two different conclusions? Because we've constructed the world in different ways. This thing replicates itself in our research. It replicates itself by how we ask the question, how we interpret, how the question was asked, and how we write up the results. So essentially, what is a reflexivity statement, a positionality statement, or any of the multitude of other words that they can be called, it is a way of trying to focus on the research and not the researcher by the researcher acknowledging how they're approaching the work. We've also talked about not working on communities but working with communities. This is another way you can set yourself up to do that. We all really, most of us really like dichotomies, i.e., are you race A or are you race B? Are you sexuality C or are you sexuality D? Are you gender E or are you gender A? And we don't like the liminal spaces or the spaces in between, but positionality statements actually say actually the entire world is in between and so let's acknowledge where we are in between and use that as a place to start the conversation from. So all of that said, Dr. Tiffany, have you heard this? What are your thoughts? First off, I just love how you put everything. Are you race A? Are you race B? Are you gender C? Are you gender D? You know, I mean. You're you just I just love how you always put things you make it so clear. You just make it so, so clear. Thank you. I definitely have heard it. I mean, I've heard pick a side. Pick a side, stay on that side, state it and continue to be on that path. You know, but it's, you know, the thing is that research is messy and especially qualitative research. And now, by the way, I'm not saying that quant is we're talking about qualitative research is not saying that we don't love our quant. siblings by any, you know, by any rate. But I think we have to acknowledge that qualitative research is messy, number one, and it's hard to quote unquote, pick a side and stay on that side. It's not as easy. And then on top of that, it feels like you're invalidating your own feelings when you don't make that statement. And what Holmes says in 2020 states that positionality reflects the position. that the researcher has chosen to adopt within a given research study. Now, I thought when reading this, I thought to myself, oh, this makes sense. I am simply stating, not simply, but I am stating what I really feel is in myself. I am making, I am being vulnerable. I am being vulnerable as a researcher. And I don't think... that we in as academics have truly gotten to a space where we feel that we can be vulnerable in our research because we use all these big fancy, smancy words. I mean, cause that's a big word, you know but we use these big fancy, smancy words to validate who we are and where we are and where we're going. So, so I'll say that, but in order to do what Holmes is saying One must demonstrate reflexivity. And so Kerry Daly defines reflexivity as the way in which a researcher critically monitors and understands the role of the self in the research endeavor. Reflexivity serves a heuristic function for the research or it is through an internal search that the researcher discovers the nature and the meaning of experience and develops methods and procedures to carry. Oh. procedures for carrying the investigation and analysis. Excuse me, I just got so into what we're talking about. Analysis to a deeper level. And that can be found on page 188 in Carrie Daly's text. And we're actually putting all of, just like we've always said in the past, we are putting all of our resources in with the show notes. So just repeating what we've said in the past. But I think even subjectivity, these are words that are used very much interchangeably. The question is why? And I know Dr. Lizzie and I were talking about this earlier that maybe it's quite possible that the reason that these words are used so interchangeably is because of the nuance of coming to understanding the vulnerability of being a researcher and putting our self, our true selves, our true authentic, authentic with a capital A, our authentic selves out there. in our own research. So I'm gonna just say drop mic. Always drop mic. You always find the best quotes. So tell me a little bit more of... Kerry Daly, it sounds like this is such a good quote and such a deep quote of carrying this investigation and analysis to a deeper level. But I guess if I'm thinking about this from a complete novice perspective, one of the things I'm wondering is this isn't an all research that I have to do this. Or if I'm a mixed methodologist, I'm not used to disclosing anything about myself. And I'm not going to lie to you, the very first time I heard about the statements, I was like, I'm never doing that because I grew up, uh, grew up professionally, uh, air quotes around that grew up. Um, but grew up professionally at Planned Parenthood where I was not going to disclose anything about myself because when you're teaching sexuality education, you should not, because that is conflict of interest, right? It's very unethical, all sorts of different pieces. So I like when I think about disclosing stuff about myself to any, like in any professional context, I'm like, that's not for me. I'm not supposed to do that. That's a like, I don't want to come out in the middle of my research. People are going to not be able to read it correctly. So can you tell us a little bit more about like how, how daily would talk about that or how you think about it, Dr. Tiffany? Sure. So actually, as you were talking, I was thinking to myself, where is my book? There was a book that I was looking for. And I actually wrote a case study for it, critical. critical race studies in physical education. And in my chapter on transgender youth in swimming, what I wrote there was I, and maybe it is my own positionality statement in this particular case study, but in the footnote, I wrote, I am not a trans person, but I am an ally. And... And this case study is a combination of multiple voices. And I'm a part of the LGBTQ plus community. So I'm making my statement right then and there in the case study at the very, I can't even speak today, in the end notes by saying, this is who I am. And this is a culmination of stories for this particular case study. And we'll put the... the information about the text in our show notes for folks to read if you're interested for buying this textbook. We are not getting paid for this anyway. No conflicts of interest to disclose. No conflicts, none, none. But I think what Carrie is saying, we need to truly, in order for us to show up in our research. our positionality statements, subjectivity statements, reflexivity statements, however they may be phrased. It gives you a little bit of space, a little wiggle room to say, this is who you are in relationship to the research that you're doing and why you're doing it. If you don't put that there, it leaves people wondering the importance of your work. And I know I've had the same conversation with people who are quantitative researchers, because in quant, they're really my understanding that there's no real positionality statement. Excuse me. And so this really is an opportunity to state your importance to it. So pause. Yep. Yeah. So go ahead. Dr. Lizzie. Yeah, no, so thank you, Dr. Tiffany for that. I love that answer and I love that thought process. And it's got my head spinning in about 15 different ways. And I'm thinking about a conversation I recently had with one of my grad students about why they want to do the research that they do. And it's because they- are a trans person who wants to do research on trans community. And we've been having this conversation back and forth and back and forth about how challenging that is to read all of this research and to know it's not coming from your community and feeling like it isn't as meaningful because it isn't part of your community. And so I love this thought process and I love how you described that. So go ahead, tell me more. I'm really in it. The other part to this, and I'm glad that you brought that up about your conversation that you had with your student, because I remember vaguely and if I misquote, I'm not going to directly quote but I'm doing my air quotes here, but I was in a session with Dr. there's a sense of bias. And the thing is that as a black and brown person and indigenous person, there's always this heavy emphasis placed from the academy on what bias is. And so I would push back because white people are not always asked about their bias in these spaces. So I think we need to put, there's a double standard, particularly in marginalized spaces and on marginalized people about what is bias and how biases form. So I wanted to say that before I forgot. Go ahead. Yeah, no, thank you for saying that. I love that. And I just- And I'm unapologetically Black. Yes, you are. And I love it. I love that framework of simultaneously stating what your positionality is, but also not allowing anyone to use it to do harm, I think is what I'm hearing you say. That's completely what you're hearing me say. I mean, I think unfortunately we have to think about who is controlling the narrative in higher education. It's not black and brown and other people who are marginal from... other marginalized people who are controlling the narrative. Dr. Lizzie just stood up and she's wearing her shirt, decolonize your syllabus. That Dr. Tiffany got for me. We have matching shirts. Well, we do. We do, we do. We should, you know what? We should probably put the link for where people can buy that shirt in our show notes as well. 100%. Definitely, definitely support, support. But I think it's really important for us to understand when you've got people who are on the outside of academia, meaning anybody who is not a white male, a white straight male, who is doing work with their own community or even working with other communities, it's really important to think about how we come to this work, how we're showing up. That's something that's really, really important. How are we showing up? And you have to ask yourself that. And unfortunately, that's not, it's a double standard because white men, white straight men are not having to ask themselves that question. So going back to positionality, I guess I did say that. Going back to positionality, we are always having to, I don't wanna say defend. because I don't want to say defend. But what I am going to say is, make sure that as you're writing your positionality statement that you state it in a way that you feel is a reflection of yourself. And if you're speaking with a community that it's a reflection of that community. That's how I'm going to phrase that. Um, yeah. Well, and I think, thank you for saying that. And like, that's such a huge gift to tell people that they can be themselves and that in research, you don't have to hide who you are because I feel like that's so much of the training that I was told either very explicitly or very implicitly of like, no backseat yourself, backseat yourself. And this is- I think we were both told that though. I mean, like, let's, let's be real. I mean, I think- I think we're both told that in the sense of our training because our faculty members were probably trained that way. I'm not trying to let anybody set anybody on fire or anything like that, but I'm just saying that to some degree, you know, it's academia, there's an expectation of how you're trained. And go ahead. Well, and I wanted to break that mold. No, please. Yeah. And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm just thinking we should also say, because we haven't said this to listeners yet, these are a fairly recent kind of emergence and not every journal will allow you to submit a positionality or reflexivity or a subjectivity statement, but it's so important if you can throw one in there, even if it's just one sentence or even if it's an end note, like this is a really helpful way to be true to yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I will definitely agree with that. I think just about every piece I've submitted, except for maybe one, I've been able to write a statement on. The one I was working with two other people. So, I mean, so when you're working with other people, and it's a little bit harder to do, or a lot, a lot harder. because their voices kind of, it was like, eh, you know, I'm like, you know what, whatever. But it's all good, it's all good. So I think the most important part in doing all of this, I think the question is how to write it. Because a lot of people are probably listening and they're like, okay, well, I'm down for writing this, but how do I write that? How do I write this positionality statement? And I'm gonna explain it. in three easy steps, easy in air quotes. Can't wait. I'm here, I've got my backpack on, I've got my map out. I am ready, take me on this adventure. All right, here we go, here we go, here we go. So, I actually wrote a piece in CTRL as the beat and we will, go ahead. Can you explain for folks what CTRL is in case they're not listening from AEO? from the AU. So CTRL is the Center for Teaching, Research and Learning. That's the offices in which I work at American University. And the beat is kind of like its academic blog. That's how I'm going to phrase it for folks to take a look at what's being written there. We'll put the link in the show notes for you to take a look at what I wrote there. And then there's other pieces that you can take a look at as well. So the first step in writing your positionality statement, number one, is be unapologetic. Ask yourself the following questions. What would it feel like if you could call your field to action? And if you're asking yourself, what does that really mean? If you could look at the people who are the head people in your field and say, listen, this is what I wanna do. This is how I'm gonna do it. And you can't stop me. You can't stop me now. I don't know. I can't stop, won't stop. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what you do. And then how would your positionality statement in a journal article look different if you had to explain it to someone who is not in the academy? I think it's really important for us to write from a place and from a space that is not all academic-like. We have a tendency to write very... Not even know if academic is a word, but academic. You know, we do, we do. I mean, that's, I don't think it's a word, but we, but we, I like it. I want to start using it. We write so academic. You know, we do. I mean, but we are academics, but the thing is, is that you need to write in plain language, I think, and that's fine. It doesn't mean that you're dumbing down your language by any means whatsoever, but just write it so that anybody from anywhere else can understand what you're writing. Keeping this in mind, you want to do kiss method, keep it simple. Keeping this in mind, say what's on your mind and write it down. Do not attempt to fix what you wrote, just write it. Okay? So that's what you're gonna do for first step number one, just write, just write. Go ahead, Dr. Lizzie. I love this, I love this advice. And I think it is so hard for people to do. I am constantly telling students when I look at their writing, I'm like, you're trying to sound more intelligent than you are, or you're trying to like, write in an active voice, or you're trying to do something, and you've gotten word salad on the page. And so like, I think that's really important. If it helps, some, one of the ways that I like to do this is when I'm trying to write more simply is I will say, like, I will just record, I will do a voice memo recording myself talking, because sometimes I can't, like actually write it in the way that I talk it. But if I, if I talk it and then I get the transcription and then I edit that, that can be a really easy way to get that simpler, more natural sounding rhythm. I love that. I wish I had known that I could do that in Word when we were writing our dissertations because same, you know, by the time I figured it out, we were already graduated. But let me tell you. Technology. I know. I just, I just was like, ah, but you know, the really cool thing that I will say. So Daley also says that, um, noted that when writing such a statement began by describing experiences that come to mind, these might include occasions when you felt vulnerability, power, awkwardness, affirmation, conflict, or an experience of clear self-awareness. Can I get a right? Ooh. Clear self-awareness. All of these words, and this text is an old text. Okay, let me scroll down in the notes. This is an old text. You would have thought this text is 2007. Whoa. This is a- I was fully expecting you to be like 2015, and I was gonna be like, Dr. Tiffany, no, come on now, that's not old. This is a 2007 text. This is a 2007 text. So for all of this to be found in a 2007 text and you're like, wait, awkwardness, affirmation, conflict, vulnerability, self-awareness. Oh, 2007. Y'all, sometimes information. The interesting thing about this, excuse me, is that every field comes to its own. Aha moment. in its own time. Preach. So it comes to- I am here for this. It comes to its own moment. So this is a 2007 text. It is not in a field that I'm from, personally. I don't think it's from your field either. No, so this is Family Studies and Human Development. So it's not in a field that Dr. Lizzie is from. So every field, they're having their own epiphany at a different time, and that's okay. It's okay. So as you're writing all this, I'm going to just tell you now, step two, be gentle with yourself. So I know. So I was, let me tell you this thing, you need to hold space for yourself while you're going through this revision process because each version of what you're writing is going to be a new version of you. So you're going to read it. put it away walk away walk away if it if it means like a day or two that's fine walk away, but just make sure that you are putting your authentic self on the paper. That's right. Whew. I got myself worked up. I'm sweaty now. I love that so much. I am here for it. Y'all can't see me, but my facial expressions are like in it. I love listening to you doing that coaching talk. I hear your coach voice come out. I hear my coach voice come out. I feel I'm like, yeah, okay. Tell me what else I need to do. I'm still here for it. Let me know what, let me know how. Dr. Lizzie, let me tell you, in writing this positionality statement, you need, the one thing that I didn't do enough of was reading what I wrote out loud. Ooh, ooh. And you know what? And I know why that was. It was because that would make me even more vulnerable to what I was writing. So I am gonna ask everybody who is writing their positionality statement to read what they wrote out loud. because that means that it's becoming even more true. You are living that truth. Okay? Does that statement reflect who you are? Does it reflect what you're trying to say to your audience? It's something that you have to think about. We are not perfectionists. Okay. You, you're listening to recovering perfectionist. You're not going to get it right the first time. I hate to break it to you. And that's okay. It's okay. Okay. In fact, no one does. And if they tell you they are, they're lying because we all have to revisit our work. It's not. no one knows how to write in this weird academic way right out the gate. You have to practice. You do. You do. And in practicing means reading other scholars all of the time. You know, I mean, I remember I asked, I made this error and I asked a faculty member one time, how many articles do they read a week? And hold up. Was it zero? Was it zero? Was it zero? I wish it was zero, but this, this person. told me, they were like, no, I read like 30, 40 articles a week. And I was like, you're a liar. Like, who does that? What? I, what? Yeah. What? So this is what I, this is what I would like to say to anybody who is being told this. What I would like to say to you is this. is read what you need to read in your classes, number one. Read what you need to read in your classes. But also, if there's an article, go to the references of those articles and skim the references and find articles within those references to read those articles. So you can also start preparing yourself to write your positionality statement. Nobody out the gate restart. I mean, if you're reading 30, 40 articles a week, I mean, you must have a lot of time on your hands because that's definitely wasn't me. Well, and also, you don't have time to do a single other thing besides read. If that's all, if you're reading that many articles, if you're actually reading that many, if you're really reading, like you're really digesting, there's a difference between skimming and reading. Well, and do they mean they read 30 abstracts? Because sure, fine. That 30 abstracts is one thing. Right. Because sometimes when you're doing research, you're reading the abstracts, but you're not actually reading all of the paper content and you're reading for a specific reason. My nihilism comes out when I start to think about how people read scientific articles, but It's, it's, it's so the whole point being when you're reading read for content and context. Read for content and content text. Okay. So as you're doing all of this. I want you to go back after you've taken your break and acknowledge that your words are your own. Once you're satisfied with your positionality statement, give yourself a huge hug, like seriously, give yourself a hug, hold yourself, hug, hug yourself, because know that what you've just written is it takes a lot of energy and a lot of work, okay? So just know that, ask yourself, are there other scholars who echo your values, if not own it? And if there are, still own it. Did you say everything that you need to say? If not, try again. by speaking truth to power through your written words. And those are the three steps, those are your three steps. yeah and. I think too with that last piece of your words are yours and my positionality statement is not going to be yours, Dr. Tiffany, and yours is not going to be our friend D.W.'s and hers is not going to be somebody else's, right? And they shouldn't be because we're not all one. way is researchers and we shouldn't be and when we try to be cookie cutter researchers, we're putting ourselves back in the bias bucket of having bias and not acknowledging it. And this whole idea is to not have that bias. Yes, yes. Being a researcher is not a monolith. That's right. That's something that's really, you know, being a researcher is not a monolith. And I think people have this idea of what it means to be a researcher, what it means to be an academic. And we hold people. I mean, I was I will openly admit there are people that I have come in and out of my life as academics. And and I thought, oh, wow, that's what I want to be. And that's who I want to be. And I realized, I was like, that's not who I want to be. I want to be who I am. So, you know, don't put other people on a pedestal because you think, oh, well, because this is what they do, this is what I should be doing. I have made that error in the past. And so you might be saying, how does this have anything to do with the positionality statement? I will tell you now, they didn't have a positionality statement. I'm not saying that I'm better than them, but what I am saying is that my positionality statements reflected who I am. And a lot of those people who I thought had a positionality statement did not have a positionality and they were well-seasoned academics for sure. So having said all of this, having said all of this, I think something that we wanted to do is share with you a positionality statement, if that's okay. Is that okay, Dr. Lizzie? I love it. I think people need to see an example because you told them why examples are important. And you know what? I'm still stuck on this 30 to 40 papers a week. Quality over quantity, y'all. quality over quantity. Numbers do not mean everything. I know sometimes it may sound like we really hate numbers. There are reasons for numbers. I love numbers. Numbers have their place. But if you're just trying to hit this magical goal or to out Jones the other house down the road or the other researcher down the road, you're going to miss that. as researchers, we're coming to the field as our own selves, as our true authentic selves. And you have to think about that on a daily basis. You really do. Well, and I really feel like it's ableist to say like you're reading X amount of articles a week, or everyone should have this certain productivity standard. Like, no, that's not, that's an unattainable goal for 90% of people or 99% of people. And even the 1 to 10% that it's not They have a life. Go live your life. Have work-life balance. Don't just do research. It's not good for you. And what we all do, I mean, and you and I have talked about this before, and I think this for me, this is what came into my own positionality statement, is that I was not a quote unquote stereotypical doc student. I was in my late thirties when I was at IU. This was my third doc program. This was... You know, I had been in the field for several years, like as a working professional, you know, I had my own life. Like, I mean, I was a little different than the average doc student. So, and all the better for it. Oh, thanks, friend. Thanks, friend. Yeah. And I mean, it just, and I think, you know, and I think our personal experiences help shape our narrative. which helps shape our positionality statement. That's right. So without further ado. Tell us. So this is my positionality statement from my dissertation, which if you're going to look for my dissertation, there is an embargo on my dissertation. So you will not find my dissertation on ProQuest. You will find the title. And. So my positionality statement is, the study is, this study is symbolic of my personal experience as a Black cisgender woman collegiate swimmer. It is my responsibility as a researcher to acknowledge my aquatic experiences. The importance of this study was reliant upon a personal need to understand the experiences of other Black women collegiate swimmers from historically Black colleges and universities and primary white institutions. Though we all have varying experiences, we can never erase how we identify racially, ethnically. These are the silenced experiences that remain in our field as swimmers, practitioners, and academics. This study represents the stories of and by Black women, collegiate swimmers. And my bias may be the connecting factor to establish an attempt to understand these phenomenal women. Before my role as a researcher and being engaged with an active nonprofit organization, I was a collegiate swimmer and a swim coach. I will always be a swimmer. And that my friends was my position statement. Chill. It's so good. I love reading your writing and hearing your writing. Oh, well, thank you, friend. Thank you for allowing me to share it. I mean, I think I will tell everybody now it took a while for me to figure out. How I wanted to write my positionality statement. but it was really important that I did so. So take your time. Take your time in doing so and just be reflective in doing it. Yeah and arguably it's one of the harder pieces of research right because we're not used to we're trained to write about other people we're not trained to write about ourselves. And so it's but it's such a gift to be able to do that and put that in there and acknowledge where you're coming from and how you approach the work. Definitely agree. Definitely agree. So today, I know we were, I mean, today was definitely I think was one of our harder agreed talks, you know, episodes because positionality is one of positionality statements and reflexivity statements and subjectivity statements are, are these very, it's very nuanced and it's very, you know, people are constantly changing and the meaning and what do you do and how do you talk about it and Do you talk about it? Do you ever talk about it? Do you not talk about it? Vulnerability, you know, is, is definitely a key word here, but just, you know, think about how you're writing and how you want to show up in your writing. I think that's the most important thing I would like for folks to walk away with today. Yeah. And I love that. I think it's such an important message because you don't have to hide yourself just to be a researcher and in fact, who you are. is fundamental to the type of research you're doing and how you're writing it and how you're thinking about it and you are changing the field and own your expertise. I definitely agree. So without further ado, do you have any last thoughts, Dr. Lizzie? I mean, listen to Dr. Tiffany. She's brilliant and has given us such a beautiful treasure today. It's just... It's so nice to be in this space and be able to talk about research on this level with you. I hope our listeners enjoy hearing it just as much as I did, because I learned from you all of the time and it's beautiful. Well, I learned from you every single day. I kid you not. I love being able to call Dr. Lizzie up and be like, so I just heard this. Um, is this still applicable in our field or, uh, I kind of questioned. So yeah, and those really do happen. Those questions do. That's true. So without further ado, folks, Hey, love a great one until the next time I'm coloring outside the memos. I am Dr. Tiffany and I am Dr. talk to you next time. Cheers.