Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: And welcome listeners to another episode of coloring outside the memos. I am Dr. Tiffany, with Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Dr. Lizzie, and welcome everybody. We are so excited to have you here with us today because we are here with our friend our Mentor are now. We can say, colleague, now that we have graduated 3 years ago. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Yeah, yeah. Lizzy (she/her): You also know how excited we are. We're so super excited we're so super excited. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: so welcome to the show. Thank you very much Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: so. A little background on Dr. Gillard Reyes is a medical anthropologist and interdisciplinary researcher. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: She investigates the complexities of access to sexual and reproductive health and care for marginalized communities. She's interested in understanding how national policies of cultural, appropriate care are enacted at the local level; how health care providers view their role to Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: in extending care to underserved communities, and how women make decisions about their reproductive lives. Dr. Gierre is is from Indiana University in the School of Public health, our form Former: our Alma, Modern Indiana University, Bloomington, Indian and Universal. Excuse me. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Indiana University, Bloomington, let's. Let's make that clear. Let's make that clear. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: It's a big deal, if you know, you know. If you don't know if you don't know you. it doesn't. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: and without further ado, Dr. Gear is, thank you so much. Dr. You. How do you want it to call you? Dr: yeah. It's going to be much, much easier. Yes. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Oh, great no, my! Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: We are so excited to have you. So our first question for you today is. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: how did you come to qualitative research? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): This is a really, I think, an interesting question. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): basically any time that I i'm interested in doing Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): research. I have why questions right? And I think that Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): how I came to qualitative research is very closely tied to how it came to anthropology, and I came to anthropology to try to understand stuff I did not understand Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Specifically. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): my experiences as a child abroad led me to Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): sort of when I came back to my country to Peru to have a lot of questions about how and why things worked the way. They worked here Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): specifically about cultural differences and about the the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a lot of the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I don't know violence and the daily Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): daily discrimination there is against people of indigenous descent here in Peru. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and and any of the other things didn't kind of fit right. None of the other things that people wanted to do kind of fit like administration, or I don't know law none of that fit Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but anthropology kind of fit, because it was like. Oh, you know that you. You go to places that are outside of your comfort zone. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and you talk to people Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to find out things. And I was like, oh, yeah, I can do that. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I totally do that. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I think both of these come hand in hand right? I was interested in anthropology, and this is, I mean Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): not qualitative research generally, but ethnography is the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the qualitative method of anthropology, and so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I came to it. I think very naturally. And also I've always been like a nosy kind of person. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I've always wanted to, you know. You know you sit in a cafe, and even as a child, right. You sit in some place, and you see people, and you're like, Huh! Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I wonder why that person said that thing, or I wonder why that person Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): has that attitude, or is dressing in that way. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And and so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): all of that kind of lends itself very, very, I think, directly to qualitative research, like observation comes really easy to me. I am a very observant person. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so yeah it was. I think it was very organic rather than I know. A lot of people are like. Oh, I have a question, and I need to do this method right. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): It it wasn't like that for me. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I didn't really learn about qualitative research as a thing Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): until much later, because for me, what I did was just research right when I was trained as an anthropologist. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): nobody said, this is the type of call of of qualitative research that anthropologists do that it's called ethnography. This was just research methods Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): among other research methods, but it was just research methods. So I think it wasn't until I came into contact more closely with Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): public health. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and so particularly epidemiological research Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that I was like that it was like, okay, the box that you are in is this qualitative research box. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And I was like, okay, Sure. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): this is the box. Then, sure I I can play in this box. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but I I have done some non qualitative research, right? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I don't consider myself. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I guess, a quantitative researcher or a mixed methods, Researcher. But I I mean, if you can, if you, if you can do a survey, you're going to do a survey, and I can do a survey. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I can, you know. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): do some statistic wizardry? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I don't prefer it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but I can do it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So yeah. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: So I think we're gonna call you the Wizard, now Lizzy (she/her): a wizard of qualitative research, noted. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You know what the like. It it. It's harder and harder every year since you've had a Stats class to remember how to do those stats. Never remember how to which what things you need to do or how to program. I mean, I learned it in spss. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And that was kind of like because Spss was where I grew up. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Can we say this is pirated? You can pirate the ha software. And you can use pirated software, and nobody says anything. But then, you know. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): once you Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): once it's out, you can't use it, and then you don't know which buttons to press, and what things like that Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you can Google, this you can, Google, how to do descriptors. You can go back to your associations. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You can not Google how to do it Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): content analysis, or a or a thematic analysis. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I mean, you can tell what it says, but actually doing it is a whole different thing. Lizzy (she/her): the whole different thing, the hard thing to teach somebody how to do, too. Lizzy (she/her): So what is your favorite style of qualitative research to do, and why Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): one of the byproducts of my anthropology sort of discipline is that I don't subscribe to one theoretical perspective. Right? So i'm kind of the person of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you have a question, and then you sort of find what the best methods are to get to that, or what the best theories are to perhaps explain the issue. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and if the theory comes with a method or preferred method, then that's what you use. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But overall I Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I like doing interviews right in in terms of methodological specter. Interviews come very. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): very close, are very close to my heart, because Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the connection with people. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the the establishing a connection, the the being in the moment, and the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I very much feel this co- Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): important to them, and important to you, because this is what you're researching. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and you know good things are coming. You can feel this energy, and that energy is is so so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): valuable and so worthwhile. All the other Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): messy things that we need to deal with as as researchers. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): That moment makes it all worthwhile. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I've always liked that that that part Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I do struggle sometimes Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): with positionality right with connecting with people with. Can you really connect in this way with people who, for example, are are of a different gender or a different gender expression. Can they really see you as an as an ally? Or Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): if you're a woman, can you actually interview men about sexuality? How much are they actually going to tell you about what they do, or they don't do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I there's a lot of things that go through my mind when i'm trying to put together a research project. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): for better or worse, I I end up defaulting on the side of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): finding these connections mostly with people who are Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): cisgender females. Who which is the community that I, you sort of embody in my own Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): body. Right? This is standard Latina female. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But yeah, I mean that that particular Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): trying to get a connection made Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): approaching somebody. And the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it's kind of scary right. It's like asking about somebody on a date, right? It's kind of scary. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and then they're like, yeah, I can sit down and talk to you. And then oh, you're right. Okay, I can sit down and talk to this person and form this connection, and have this moment where you know, we have a really good conversation that is awesome, and I love that so it has like the scary part, and then the payoff which I, which I personally Lizzy (she/her): I love that answer so much, and listeners you couldn't hear or see us. But Dr. Tiffany and I were laughing and smiling, and having all of the fields with that, and we hope you were, too, because Lizzy (she/her): that's how we feel when we hear you talk, Lucia. You're just our personal wizard who helps us understand the world better. Thank you. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I mean, i'm thinking about Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: all the places that you've been in your education, and Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: which brings us to our next question about public health. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: How can qualitative research, push public health to be more forward thinking. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I mean Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: you. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I think, and i'm gonna. I don't want to speak on behalf of Dr. Lizzie. But you you do some pretty. You can. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Okay, okay. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I mean, you do some pretty forward thinking type of research. I mean, let's just put it out there, you know. And Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: how how do we get the rest of public house to get on board with what you and others are doing, or even attempting to do Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): so. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): we infiltrate. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So th this is the thing, the the reason that I I i'm really interested in issues of House, and I've been there doing this for a while, and when I came to the Us. To do my my doctoral degree. My idea was I'm going to go back, and i'm going to teach in a medical school, because I thought, if I really want to change health. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): what I need to do is influence doctors Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and to be able to influence doctors. I need to be able to speak, doctor, speak. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and to speak. Doctors speak like a public health. Masters is a really good way to go, because it gets you into the language and the lingo. I ended up not going back to Peru to teach, but i'm kind of in the same situation, because public health is in essence, a social science. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): However. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it is so. It is so ingrained in a lot of the leadership, and I won't, say all of them but a lot of the leadership. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that it is an objective social science. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that it is really difficult to move forward, and there is nothing objective about public health. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): because it is deciding stuff. I do. You decide that this is a wrong thing, and you want to make it better. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The all the things that lead you to that decision, if this is a wrong thing. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): are all I'm going to stop a little bit because there is Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Lindsay. We're just pausing because we're just pausing. Lindsay. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Okay, there was a there was a siren. There's a Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): for me. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it has. I mean, it has a lot of things that are really social science, but they don't like to see themselves as a social science, right? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I think that there's been in the last, maybe 20 years. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): One is like 30, Perhaps Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a movement towards saying understanding that public health needs to understand, not just count. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): because the decisions that are made that are top down decisions, don't really respond. Don't really Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): come out in in better outcomes. Right? So. Oh, we're going to decide that we're going to educate everybody on healthy eating, and so what we do is we give everybody Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): information a healthy eating. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and then you're like a Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But you know, if somebody can't really buy Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): fresh chicken or apples. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): How are they going to? Healthy right, and public health should be, and for a while was right right in the middle of that. Yes, you cannot do that you? You need to think about Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the social determinants of health, which is what we call it now. But before it was called, other things like you need to think about the context. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And and I think there's increasing understanding that the context is important. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And to understand the context, you need to understand people Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and to understand people. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You need people who can talk to people Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right, and those are us. Those are the qualitative researchers, the people who can Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): understand what people think, feel, experience, and what guides their behaviors. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Sometimes I mean it. Can. You could think about it? It it can be. It can be sometimes a little Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): unsettling. It can be thought of as something maybe mercenary, right? I'm going to find out how people think about this so that we can create Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): something that will make them change their behavior. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And it has sometimes been that way right so way back in the day when usaid Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): had anthropologists, not medical anthropologists, but anthropologist or the first medical anthropologist do research in Latin America and Central America. It was, let's understand these indigenous people so that we can change their behavior to be more modern. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that was misguided, to say the least, if not all the other things, capitalists, colonialists. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So it can be used for email. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but it could be also used for good. Right? You can. You can say, Well. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): we need to change the things that we we need to make our interventions. Actually, what people want and what people can do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I think that the goal over all of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): helping Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): people to live Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): healthier. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): joyful. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): pleasurable lives Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is a good one. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The thing is who defines what those things are. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and if we can, through qualitative research, help others to find those help those that are not represented to find those and guide those in policies and interventions. Then that's what we do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But yes, and I think that starts by infiltrating public. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: We just thank you. Thank you. Oh, it Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: So we just got done doing the last episode, and we just talked about liberation Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: in qualitative research. And so this is. This is one of those other keywords infiltrating and liberation. I'm feeling it. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Oh. this Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Oh, no power to the people! Po pow power to the qualitative researcher. Lizzy (she/her): That's right. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): It's quality that the research is disruptive or should be destructive by nature. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Because Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): if done well, it is not top down right. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): or there can be Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): things that you want to know that come from the top down. You you can want to know Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): as I did way back in the day. Why, people don't go to the clinic. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): That says, okay? Well. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): we think that the clinic is Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): safer. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): We think that it has better treatments. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But the answering of why people don't go to the clinic if you do it inductively, if you do it really not from the top down, even though your question is from the top down Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): can be very disruptive. It can be well. The clinic socks Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right things in the clinic Don't, really work. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): People are being discriminated, and that is disruptive, and that is coming from those that are there. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a method is a method. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I think that this one is one that is apt to be disruptive, and that we can use to do that right to to change things Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and have fun while doing it. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I remember our first episode, Dr. Lizzie. We were always talking about Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: quantitative researchers, you know, and and I think when the very beginning, when we started this, Lucia. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: we were saying. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: You know this: this podcast is not Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: to Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: To omit the quantitative folks is to hold them very close, and to give them a consenting hug, and just say, listen. You belong in the research as well as we do, you know. And so it just Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: you just resonated like what you said, just resonated with me so much. Lizzy (she/her): I yeah, Well, absolutely. And I think Lizzy (she/her): every single episode we've talked about as constructivist, and how we everyone constructs the world differently. And how qualitative is, seeing that construction and listening to people, and working with and not on. And Lizzy (she/her): I I think it exactly, you highlight all of that so well and so articulately. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): It's just a joy. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Lucy. I think you've got the next question. Lizzy (she/her): So we we set you a paragraph to look at and to think about on methodology, and Lizzy (she/her): we have noticed the methodology is really hard to write. Dr. Tiffany and I both learned a lot from you on how to write methodology how to write what we're doing, and I have some buried memory of Lizzy (she/her): one of the faculty members who shall remain nameless. I, you, who said, No one ever talks about theories correctly when they write them, and no one really explains anything in methods, sections. And I remember hearing that as a Phd student and being like, okay, whatever I mean, people have methods, sections. That's not the most interesting part of the paper you want to get to the results or you want to get to the discussion, and as I've tried to write them over the years have been like, oh, these are actually really hard to write. Lizzy (she/her): So what advice do you have to either interpret what method sections are saying or to write them more clearly? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Yeah. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in this is the method. Section is, you write what you did Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right. So this this is what you do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which is not necessarily what you plan to do. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which which I think is something that you need to take, that you plan something you're like. Yes, I'm going to use this methodology, and we use this at theoretical approach. Blah! Blah blah! And then, when you come to your data, it doesn't work that way. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): or you cannot do what you were proposing on doing. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Sometimes your data is too thin Sometimes you didn't notice, and your data is too thin. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Sometimes you just don't have enough to be able to follow that particular Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): particular methodology or mythological approach, and you can change it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So it is what you did right. So if you did Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): more than one interview with the person, because things were left on Set, and you wanted to do a follow up. Then you have to talk about that. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): What I found Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I find, and I found in this paragraph that you sent me Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): kind of complicated, and I I think that it is Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): something that oh, we read this paper. Who was it? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Was it, Morse. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): It might have been more. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): She has a paper where they talk about, or it might have been Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): sorry Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a paper where they talk about Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): basically what I would call the quantification of qualitative research. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): where where people try to use a lot of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): jargony sounding Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): words Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to make it seem or sound more Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): more like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a quantitative thing. Right. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you know. Quantitative thing you say. You know I used. I don't know a nova, and that the descriptive and the crossstabs and the model and blah blah blah! And so they want qualitative research to some more like that, and not so much. This is what I did. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so this is what I've noticed a lot, and I find it difficult to parse because Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you're trying to explain something, and you're saying, oh, and in this particular paragraph that you sent me. The the person wrote. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): We decided it was all inductive, and all the inductive coding, which means that you're doing. You don't have predetermined Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): codes in your head. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and you're just starting Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): pressure, and you don't have any predetermined ideas, which is a little weird, because you always have to determine ideas. But anyway. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but then they're like and based on the pre. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The themes were chosen based on this. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): on the objectives of the research. And so i'm like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): sorry Red flag. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): How can the themes be chosen based on the objectives of the research? If you are telling me that this is inductive. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): then then it's not inductive in at some point the inductive one out the window. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): things that I think happen is that people don't really know what words mean Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): when they're using them. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I think that because you coded something. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): then it's an inductive coding, and there are, as in Joni saldani's book you will see analyzing quality to reach Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): several ways of doing coding. The fact that you coded something doesn't mean that it was an inductive coding strategy. There are several forms of coding strategy. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and so I think that there's there's these kinds of complications similar to the ones that happened if they don't happen that much anymore. But way back in the day when qualitative research for public health was new. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and then it was assumed that if you were doing qualitative research you were doing Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the oh, I forget right now the you will remember Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): theory if you Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Oh, grounded theory approach. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Yeah. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): if you were during a while there in. I want to say that eighties and nineties. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): if you did qualitative research in public health. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): then qualitative research was synonymous with grounded theory. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but it wasn't grounded theory. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but nobody came out with any theories. It was just an an analysis. It was a I mean, sometimes an inductive analysis, sometimes a deductive analysis. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but it wasn't grounded theory. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I think this is what happens sometimes with these. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): with these kinds of pushes towards making qualitative research more Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): fancy sounding. I don't know Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that is not a technical work. Lizzy (she/her): you know. Lizzy (she/her): and Dr. Tiffany and I went to this seminar in the fall with Victoria Clark and Braun. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Victoria and Virginia. Lizzy (she/her): Thematic analysis. They were like they kept saying, People keep using our word thematic analysis, and I don't know why they're using it, because they're not doing thematic analysis. Lizzy (she/her): And what you're saying is that i'm laughing because, like you know, people use these terms all the time, and they think they're doing this method, and they're not because they don't understand qualitative research. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Yes, yes, yes. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I recently had an experience where I gave a talk for a colleague of mine for a doctoral program in Peru. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And there was this doctor who said he would. He was at a medical doctor who's doing the doctoral program. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and he said something like, you know. Yes, and I I've done qualitative research in my time. Blah blah blah! And he was, like, very. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you know, dismissive about it, and it's like. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And you know I had this person who did the research, you know. Write it up and blah blah blah Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a, and they're not accepting it in the at the Journal that we're submitting it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you, don't I mean you don't. You just told me you don't understand it with everything that you said. You just told me you don't understand. But for him qualitative research was like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): whatever. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So my my goal during that class was basically to to disabuse people. That qualitative research is easy because you sit and talk to people. This is kind of the idea that people have right. Oh, it's going to be so easy because you sit and talk to people. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and that's you know. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): who can not do that. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: It's so frustrating. It's so frustrating to hear that it's like this is all that you do. It's it's Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I know, in Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: sometimes, in in even in my role. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Some people like oh, so you do qualitative research. The the only thing you do is interviews right. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I'm like Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: No. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: there's more. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: There's more Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: like. So all you do is focus groups. Right? Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: No. Lizzy (she/her): So all you do is look at numbers right? That's cute. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I mean it's. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): If people think it's easy. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it's so grueling, and and it's not. I mean, if it done well. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: it is me. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and I think that Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the more that we have I mean, I think that there's been a to and fro like. There's the over compensating like people saying or journal, saying, If you don't have 25 interviews, then it's not Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a good thing which is a a number they've pulled out of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): their their whatever is right. They've pulled it out of nowhere Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So but there's there's also the other part that I hope is, is waning, which is saying, oh, I can do this if you you are X, Y. Z person, I can do that. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and it's going to be easy. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So I did. I did have, I think, a a dampening effects on some of the epidemiologists in this doctoral program. Sorry my friend was happy because she's like. I need to advise anybody who does qualitative research, and they don't understand what qualitative research is. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Let's just, you know. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Have somebody talk about this and say, okay, which are all the things that you need to do. Blah! Blah, blah! It was a 3 h class which was grueling. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and at the end. I think her comment was well, and I think Dr. Garra has told us that doing qualitative research is not as simple as we thought, and then I saw people like, yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Oh, well. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I might have saved you a couple of of people who would think they can do research, and you don't have to. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And I think that that was the issue with this particular paragraph. I just felt that it Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it was just trying to Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): mark all the the keywords right inductive theme. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): but the words Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): put together didn't make sense. But if you get published, though so this was an actual published journal article. Lizzy (she/her): I will tell you. The rest of the paper also had some issues with how they understood the quotes, because the quotes they pulled out is sample quotes as like. Lizzy (she/her): I don't think you understood what that quote was saying. Lizzy (she/her): I mean, what do I know? I didn't listen to the whole interview, but you can kind of get a sense of some of that, and it's really telling like it. Give really important information, even with that. But like how much better would it have been if they understood what they were doing. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Yeah, yeah. that's right. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: So Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: because you are Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: a medical anthropologist Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: and your qualitative researcher. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: what Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: or Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: what do you think it means to decolonize anthropology? Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: You know we just got done reading this book on Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: are talking about this book on Decolonizing ethnography. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: and Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: the text really went into talking about decolonizing. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: and you just talked about disrupting a minute ago is disrupting qualitative research the same thing as decolonizing. If it's not Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: like, or how do we, or how do we Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: decolonize anthropology? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Dude? That's a big question. So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): anthropology, and in fact, all research is Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): colonial. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The fact that we do research Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is colonial. It it is because this was born all in colonial administrations or neo colonial administrations Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to better understand Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): essentially their subjects. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and essentially those that they thought were unknowable because they were strange Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): or other. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it bothers me. But a lot of the research that we do is because there are these others right? Not these others only Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): people, but others other to behaviors. Oh, you're a person who has a is a it's a cisgender man who has sex with a sister of mine. Oh, that's other. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Let's understand that better, because it's under. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): when you start from that perspective. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): none of us are out outside of that right. We are all doing. We are using a Western gaze Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to do research, and and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the fact is, we can't not use a Western case, because that is the the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): brain organization in terms of research that we have received. Our education has a Western gaze Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): so Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): decolonizing anything decolonizing anthropology, public health, or or just Academia or research more generally Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): means Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): leaving the Western gaze. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which is basically Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): not doing the things that we have learned how to do, and not thinking the ways that we have learned how to think. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So. Of course it is freaking scary for everybody, for people who want to do it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and people who don't want to do it. It's completely anathema. It's because it is essentially Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): giving the same or equal respect and validity to ways of thinking about the world Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): that have been Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): diminished because of the Western gaze. Right? The Western gaze basically says, You know things that happen in the West Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): eurocentric. It's also a way are the are the things that are better right. It has an evolutionary kind of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): idea, right? So the the West, the the Us. Europe Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is the example that we should all, as people and country should aspire to. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it sort of structures our it has structured that education. It has structured the way we we govern the the way that our our cities and our Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): countries are organized in terms of government. All of it. It kind of permeates our whole reality. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But there is an alternate reality that only those who are of indigenous Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): it descent, and who who live Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): imbued in indigenous cultures, perceive that we who are not of indigenous ascent do not perceive. And that is different way to organize the world Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which includes research Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right? A different way to think about the world Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which gives validity to those ways to think about the world Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): at the same level as Western thoughts. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): calls for decolonizing anthropology have been Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): mit ctl and hard like the a. A year ago, maybe 2 years ago, Akil Gupta, who was the American Anthropological Association at the time he was the president of the American Anthropological Association. 150 Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): gave a talk about decolonizing anthropology and talking about the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the ways in which anthropologists had in fact. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): affected violence on on communities they sought theoretically to to represent, because they did not recognize the validity of other ways of thinking. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and then say, Well, we need to look to our indigenous colleagues, the people who are thinking through different ways of thinking about the world. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to be able to fully decolonize the discipline Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in anthropology. Specifically. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): this means Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): things like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): not Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): doing academia as academia is done Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): working with communities, so so not privileging an academia is you know you privilege papers. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you privilege publications that are seen by other academics. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so activities in in decolonizing the discipline mean things like not really Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): working for Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the Academia's Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): tally of these are the things you need to do, but Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): working with and for communities in what communities want. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): let communities decide their own. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Their own sort of idea, so that what they want to do like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): there are, I think, some some really interesting Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): partnerships, but they require a lot of a lot of time. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): They require a lot of trust. They require a lot of transparency. a lot of the indigenous. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): The indigenous fear in the Us. And Canada has lately been rocked by I by several cases of people passing as Indian and indigenous, and not being indigenous persons. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And so there's so much Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): difficulty in establishing this real trust. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): There's a lot of backlash on. Are you indigenous? Are you not indigenous? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): But in the end I mean the colonizing research means thinking about the world Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): through a completely different set Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): of organizational principles. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): For example. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): from a Western thought organizational principle. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Our bodies finish at our skin. That is where Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And what happens in social life Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is just something that happens in social life. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in many indigenous ways of thinking about the world. Your body does not finish where your skin. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): your body, is Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): actively connected to the world around you, and you are in communion as a as a whole, with Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): animals, with people, with Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): with the environment as a whole. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and therefore Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): they are as Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): as Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): important in the environment as bodies are. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): whereas in Western thought Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): people Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): have the primacy. In some places people have the primacy over nature, and if you want nature to have privacy over people, you have to keep people out of those places. Those are the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the reserves or the parks right? So this is what nature has primacy over people. This is where people have primacy over nature Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in much of the indigenous thought, especially the ones that I know a lot more about, which is Latin, American, and just generally Latin American ways of thinking specifically, and the way of thinking. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): There is not that division Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): right? Your Your body reacts to the world. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Problems in your social life Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): affect like interpersonal issues, and the Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): fighting jealousy affect you bodily, so it's not that you. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I fact you both in the sense that you just developed illness Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in in reaction to these. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): what happens with the animals affects you. What happens with you affect the animals. And so all of this comes together. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and so to to think about the world in that way, especially if you're thinking, I mean, i'm just going back to public health. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): It's very difficult, you know, because decolonizing public health basically means Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): saying Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): what you think is good and better for people Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is only going to be accepted as good and better for people if people actually accept it as better for them. So it's kind of Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): because Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): public health Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): is is also on Medicine is is a colonial construct. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): because we decide based on a series of numbers, or you know, whatever, that you suffer from this disease. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and it might not be perceived in that same way Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): at a community level like an indigenous community. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I don't really know Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): how much we can. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): We colonize something that structures everything around us Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): other than Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): using our Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): being sort of supportive of others who can move a different way of thinking about the world right Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): supporting our indigenous colleagues. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): doing part, I mean doing partnership and working with communities, and not Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and not at communities. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I think, is the the minimal first step towards any Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): any real decolonization effort. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Words from the Wizard. Lizzy (she/her): I mean. Honestly, I wow! It's such brilliance and such Lizzy (she/her): a way of telling that story that I think anyone can grasp on to and understand. Yeah. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: yeah. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I think what we have definitely been talking about Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: through each episode is what is decolonizing. How do we decolonize what we're reading, or how do we actively Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: become better researchers with a decolonized lens like, how how do we do this? Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Because it's not an easy thing to do, especially when you have been trained with, and i'm going to use your words like with a Western lens. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: you know, and and it's it's Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: when you've been told. Okay, you've been doing this this this way of thinking is correct. You're like No? Well, actually the people that i'm working with. They're Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: they have a different lived experience. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: So you've You've just Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: thank you. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Just thank you. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You're welcome. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: We have some fun questions for you Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: as we get ready to wrap up. So this is the fun round. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I'm trying to move my mouse over, and it's not. I'm like move, move, move, all right. So the fun round when Number one, what areas of quality of research have you wanted to explore, but have not had the opportunity to do yet. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Photo Voice. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Why. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): photo elicited interviews. I just think that it gives people power to decide what they want to show you. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Do you want to work on a paper with us because we have? Yeah, we do have data. I mean, I thought it would be really. I mean I I haven't done it. I've had students who have done it, but I think it's really evocative when you Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and it's also aesthetically disruptive, right? Because what I think is something aesthetically beautiful. Somebody else might think something else is that it can be beautiful, and it's so subjective to the person, and it gives you such a lens into their into their inner Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): thoughts and lives. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): And then, in a really great G into discussion, I haven't been able to do it, but I've always been really interested in in that particular area. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Well, we might have something for you down the pipe, just saying, okay. Lizzy (she/her): What is your favorite tool that you like to use or bring with you into the field Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): a digital recorder, even though everybody that uses your cell phone. Now, I have my digital recorder Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): That looks like I don't know it's I Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): do. People use cigarette cases anymore. It's like a small cigarette case. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): What can what can you Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): half a cell phone. It's like half a cell phone, and it has an external microphone. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and it's all black, so it's like, and I can put it on a side. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): because I know i'm gonna fuck using my cell phone. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I am gonna something's gonna happen, and i'm gonna record my thing. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So sometimes I will use the cell phone as backup. But yeah, the digital recorder is my go to Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Awesome. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: What is your favorite childhood experiment Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): element? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): There used to be this: these little Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): army people that had parachutes. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Okay, throwing them out of places like, or the top of the building right? Not the building, but my Parents' house. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): That's always fun. I'm not sure if it's an experiment. But yeah. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: it's observational and did gravity continue to work if you wrap it in a certain way it won't open, and if you wrap it in a different way it will open. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So yeah, that's always fun. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I wasn't. I wasn't that kind of an experiment. When I was a I was a reader. I like I read a lot Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): the one that really rocks my world when I was about. I don't know. 13 Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): was a 100 years of solitude. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I found it like Whoa! Wild, fascinating. How can he have thought about these things that are so wonderful and so weird. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Turns out, he was just describing what the world is like in Latin America like. Really, if you live and work so much like 20 years later, when I was, you know, having worked and done a lot of field work in Peru. And and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you're like, oh, yeah, you know. Got to see America's was basically just talking about his family. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and he and his Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): people in in their country. Because yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and that that arc from thinking it was wonderful and completely, because it's supposed to be magical realist. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): by the way in which they it's kind of the Latin American magical realism. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Yeah, I mean, it has some magical, but it's very real. It's like, okay, yeah, I can see that Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): 2030 years later I was like, oh, yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): So yeah, that was good. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: So next book to put on your shelf. Got it. Lizzy (she/her): my anthropology field. Would you want to have to your coffee with? And what would you want to talk about Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): which? Who? What sorry person in my field Lizzy (she/her): would you want to have to your coffee with? And what would you want to talk about. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You know. I've been following somebody who is at your university for a while. She just joined American University. I don't know her personally. I follow her on Twitter. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Oh, that's right. Okay, Wait a second. We've talked about this. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: I think so. Okay. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): He She was at Cdc for a while. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and then she she Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): went on, and I don't know if what this was. I don't know how right, but she was a Cdc. For a while, and then she was at a she's in a medical anthropologist that does work with Latinos, and Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): she seems like a fascinating person to try to understand. I mean she's an anthropology, department. But to try to understand Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): this Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): perpetual conflict that I have between public health and anthropology? Right? So how how do you navigate the relationship? Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): How do you navigate this world. I felt that. Yeah. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): she seems like a nice person. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: so I might have to do some reaching out on our anthropology Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): website and be like. Hey, Listen here. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: my last question for you, for this fun round is. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: what is your anthem that makes writing easier Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): like Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): you know what makes writing easier. It's not an answer. You're not going to like it. It is a Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): list playlist on spotify that I found that it's called deep focus. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and it's not it doesn't have any words it has like it has set Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): like songs, but they're like. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): and for some reason I don't know what Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): juju magic they do over there. It does work like when I hear, and i'm I start working on this. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I just continue working. I don't get as distracted as I would if i'm listening to music that has Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): words Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): in it. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I have music, for when i'm getting pumped up to do something right. But I have like my playlist. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): You're going to laugh. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): Katie Perry. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): I don't know what the song is like when she says the I think it's maybe more. Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): That's kind of like. I need to get pumped up to do something like, okay, I need to sit down and do something. I really don't like that. I put that on Candy Bar Lizzy (she/her): the great song. I'm right there with you. That is a ready to go. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Lucya. Thank you so much for joining us today. You are welcome. It's always a pleasure talking to you Lucía Guerra Reyes (she/ella): to you both. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Okay, we're we're a team. We're the dynamic duo. Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: Well, listeners, thank you so much for listening. Dr. Lizzie and I will check you out later. This is Dr. Tiffany, and Tiffany Monique Quash, PhD - CTRL: thank you so much, and have a good one. Cheers, cheers.